Share the Pain?
These massive deficit reduction programs being implemented around the globe point to two different trends, the way I see it. The first is the failure of liberalism, the very notion that market logic can be blunted by politically determined social measures. The welfare state appeared to be a Third Way but this illusion could only be maintained during the years of post-war growth.The fatal contradiction, that pensions could be invested in capital markets and support the ageing population, has finally imploded. Workers abandoned their "class war" generations ago, believing this accommodation was a victory, but capital is having the last laugh, forcing higher production out of fewer workers and leaving the rest to fight for the scraps.
On a more immediate level, that of cultural production, I think we are seeing an attack on the notion of leisure ( for workers). One myth of modernity, used effectively to sell workers on the benefits of machines) was that there would be more leisure time. Time to stroll, time to learn, time to love. Right.
Of course there was always a Puritan under-current, predominant in the U.S. but part of Christian culture everywhere, that "idle time was the devils workshop". Witness the average American workers reaction to the French strikes: "Lazy spoiled frogs! How dare they take such long lunches!" The Germans continue to skip lunch and ( over)produce, produce, produce for the Fatherland.
American WASPs know that only through working hard till the day you die can Salvation be found. They beg the boss for over-time and wear their exhaustion like a badge of honour. Also, ( assuming they dodged the devil) what would they do with leisure time? ( after having caught up on the last few seasons of Survivor?) They get bored quickly strolling, learning and loving.I'm getting as cynical as Adorno!
The ruling class has no problem with leisure, their piety was always an inside joke. They come to our lodge, they flit around the globe, they go to France!
Austerity is "in", Markets are up, and soup lines are long. Could the IWW see a comeback? Halleluejah I'm a Bum! Halleluejah Bum Again! Halleluejah give us a hand-out to revive us again!
The final insult is listening to the politicians solemnly declare that "it is only fair that we all share the pain." And seeing the workers nod in pious agreement. We? Really? The Tea Party brilliantly wedged so-called "progressives" by framing stimulus and bail-outs as socialism, something they could never defend, yet these Dems know how insane they sound defending "free markets". Checkmate.
posted by troutsky @ 9:17 AM
18 comments
18 Comments:
"The fatal contradiction, that pensions could be invested in capital markets..."
Of course, Social Security doesn't work this way, which is why there is always a push to privatize it...
Workers abandoned their "class war" generations ago, believing this accommodation was a victory...
Ha, right on!
One myth of modernity, used effectively to sell workers on the benefits of machines...
C'mon. Everyone bought this. Even Karl!
"Of course there was always a Puritan under-current, predominant in the U.S..."
Yes, yes, and the moralistic drivel being spouted by the Tories in the UK sounds positively early 19th century...But, I question the uniqueness of this. Chinese people I know say that it is the same in their native culture. I'm sure they're not alone in this...
"The final insult is listening to the politicians solemnly declare that "it is only fair that we all share the pain." And seeing the workers nod in pious agreement. We? Really? The Tea Party brilliantly wedged so-called "progressives" by framing stimulus and bail-outs as socialism, something they could never defend, yet these Dems know how insane they sound defending "free markets". Checkmate."
Ha, another good one! One of your best capsule analyses. The Dems are really hoist on their own petard, snookered, whatever...And we with them. As Gore Vidal likes to say, "There is one political party in America - the party of Money." David Brooks' idiotic recent column notwithstanding.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/opinion/19brooks.html
Here we go again
The mindless trout guide advocates certified messes like the former USSR, Cuba, Venezuela and so forth and talks about failure of liberalism. This should be on comedy central.
France has lagged behind other nations in Europe because of entrenced socialism. Sorry, but lazy workers with huge safety nets has had unemployment issues for a long time.
Have to disagree somewhat on the Tea Baggers, trout. I think it was a grass roots middle class movement in the beginning.
It got a little traction and then the money came, the Koch bros., the Tea Party express, Sean Hannity ... they all commandeered it.
And now it's just a load of Beaks screaming that Obama is a Communist.
In a capitalist culture technology is primarily a means to extract more resources and beat the Malthusian curve.
Yes Ducky the man has a bug eyed radical family, a Black liberation theology minister, appoints commies to cabinet jobs, hangs out with communist terrorists and had a card carrying commie mentor.
He is way too soft on Chavez. Chavez needs to go and his foreign
supporters need to go with him. Taking money from hostile foreign governments is a nice way to the Fed pen. Commies should be housed with hardened criminals so they can experience the social justice they advocate for others first hand.
The deficit could be solved easily, but nobody wants to even talk about going down that road. Simply put-
1. Lower taxes
2. Raise wages
3. Slash regulations to the basic nuts and bolts
4. Do away with tax refunds.
5. Flat tax
Everybody pays the same percentage, which means of course the rich would still pay more, but everybody pays, with no tax refunds.
Problem solved. Will something like this ever be implemented? Hell no.
We need to have a long discussion about the INDIGNITY of work!!! That is the problem; I am 180 degrees opposite the Calvinists and Puritans. Work is the invention of the devil -- politicians (socialist or capitalist) and their paymasters!!
@Pagan:
Can't tell if you're joking or not!
1. Lower taxes
For everyone, the same amount? How does this relate to No. 5?
2. Raise wages
How do you do this? By government fiat? "Ok, you corporations, everyone get's a raise!" I thought you were against intrusive government.
3. Slash regulations to the basic nuts and bolts
Who defines what is basic? Oh yeah, OSHA, we don't need that. FDA, nah...SEC? Nooo? Anti-strike laws? YEAH!!!
4. Do away with tax refunds.
Somehow I imagine this would not be quite so across the board as you think.
5. Flat tax
My ALL TIME FAVORITE!! Sure, a guy making $250k pays 10%, and a guy making $25k pays 10%. Isn't that fair?
Of course, we all know that 2500 bucks is a hell of a lot to the second guy, and a wine budget to the second, but fair is fair, by the numbers...
Why IS this fair? It's simple, equitable, but fair? Obviously, the guys making 250K and more will benefit mightily, while the rest of us will be given our fair shake and dismissed.
If I hadn't heard this sort of thing being parroted as a political program before, I'd think you were kidding, but I'm not so sure.
I have always supported minimum wage laws, and always will. The government has a right to regulate the economy, for the simple fact it is a national economy. The minute we go back to states minting their own currency, then that right disappears, but until something like that happens, then they have every right to make sure people are paid fairly for their labor.
As far as the other stuff, what can I say? If a person doesn't pay taxes, what right does he even have to have any input? Ten percent isn't nearly high enough, by the way. I'd say more like thirty percent, maybe a little less, at least to start. Once the deficit is brought under control, then we can think about more reductions, again across the board, everybody pays the same percentage.
As for how hard this would be on the average person, that's precisely why I said wages should be raised. I'm not talking about twenty or thirty cents an hour, I'm talking more along the lines of a minimum wage of just south of thirteen dollars an hour.
Businesses couldn't bitch, because for one, they would be getting a substantial tax break, and two, they wouldn't be burdened with all these intrusive regulations you seem to be so concerned about.
If a person doesn't pay taxes, what right does he even have to have any input? Ten percent isn't nearly high enough, by the way. I'd say more like thirty percent, maybe a little less, at least to start.
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Most everyone pays taxes. When you say a person doesn't I assume you are referring to income tax and are led to believe by Rush "Talent on Loan from Synthetic Morphine" Limbaugh (drug law evader) that somehow the income tax includes SSI, sales, excise and any number of taxes.
30%? Please refer to Lichanos' example, you propose, I assume, to tax a single parent making $20,000 a year $6,000 and call that fair. This is why we scratch our heads at Libertarian proposals.
@Kultur --- I assume you are referring to wage labor in a laissez-faire free(LMAO) market.
Under my scenario, a person making minimum wage would be making twenty-four thousand dollars a year before taxes, so your twenty-thousand dollar a year single parent would probably be making more like thirty thousand a year. Prices would also go down appreciably.
Well, 30 percent of thirty thousand is still quite a chunk. You need to jump through some hoops to make the flat tax, "fair".
Why not a progressive tax that taxes people in proportion to percentage of the wealth they control?
I still don't understand how you are going to drop prices. Das Kapital doesn't like it's profits to decrease so you are going to have to improve productivity enormously and you just gave everyone a raise. Das Kapital always wins.
28% is actually what I had in mind. You keep ignoring the vast amount of money businesses will save. The top rate now is 35.5 percent. That's a massive savings, and will enable more hiring, thus increased production. The increased production will lead to lower prices. They're still making great profits, because of the less amount of money they pay not only due to tax reductions, but also in the way of no longer having to follow reams and reams of paper worth of regulations. You seem to have not considered, regulations cost money.
You seem to be intent on coming up with something that is going to be perfect, or at least "fair". That's not going to happen because life ain't fair, but you can make it better.
Another thing my idea would do would be to encourage savings, as opposed to out of control, off the wall consumer spending. People will have more money to spend, but since they won't be getting refunds at the end of the year, this will encourage them to save a little.
This in turn would encourage companies to be even more competitive, therefore contributing an extra bit to keeping prices in line. Lowering prices increases demand.
At the same time, everybody is contributing an equal amount. This idea that the top two percent should pay more is an obscene joke. The bottom half of the population doesn't pay a damn thing, other than their own social security and medicare, etc. Everything else, they get back at the end of the year, so they're not paying shit.
Only, yes they are. Anytime you raise taxes on "the rich", in a way you're right, they don't pay, for the simple fact, they pass that tax burden on to the consumer, thus your "progressive" tax is actually a hidden tax on the consumer-that "little guy" you care so much about.
Why not just cut the malarky and come up with a system that recognizes everybody's contributions and obligations in a way that is fair to all concerned, or at least, as fair as you are ever going to achieve.
One minute you're concerned because that single mom is going to pay too much out of her twenty-thousand dollars, the next minute you're moaning when I point out that after she's paid all her taxes she'll just have a little more than twenty thousand. Come on.
Pagan, the EFFECTIVE business tax rate in America is the lowest in the developed world. An example would be ExxonMobil which pays under 5%.
Follow up on the recent news on Google's tax dodge. Please, it gets frustrating dealing with these right wing talking points which are far from accurate.
If you raise taxes on the rich they pass it on to the consumer? If they can pass on the cost to the consumer without losing share then they would do it regardless of tax status (see above). Also, your theory implies there is no competitive market pricing. Now that idea has some merit.
Once again, I favor graduated taxation and it is indeed fair. However, we have been moving away from graduated systems as the income tax becomes less of a source of income. Right now SSI is coming close to income tax and corporate taxation trails by a great margin.
I fear you have been listening to Rush the Vulgar Pigboy too much and taking his bullshit for gospel.
Ducky, what Exxon Mobile pays compared to what most other businesses pays is a different story. I don't know about five percent, but I know a lot of these multi-national corporations have all kinds of overseas tax havens and some of them probably feel like five percent is too much. That's just the way they roll. I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about the majority of businesses, the vast majority of whom can't afford to hire a battalion of lawyers or have their own division of accountants. Then there's travel, advertising expense. That's an entirely different world from what the average businessman lives in. That's the guy who is at such a severe disadvantage.
And he gets it from both ends. Yeah, let's tax the "rich" and give these "small businesses" tax breaks.
Trouble with that is, inventory. Small businesses get it from big business, and yes, they do pass the cost on. And those increased inventory costs go back down to the consumer.
Competition has to have the right kind of atmosphere in which to thrive. If I have pay ten dollars for a widget, but the most I can get out of it is ten dollars and ten cents, what am I going to do? You can only lower your prices so much and stay viable.
Your policies are the best friends big businesses ever had. Sure, they'd prefer the tax breaks and Republican policies, but they aren't going to go out of business regardless. It's the little guy that's going to get swallowed whole.
And its the little guy, collectively, who creates the vast majority of jobs. The little guy is the one who has to fight through all the regulations and struggles to get by. They ain't no sweat to Exxon Mobile or to most companies of that stature.
That's why too high taxes and too much regulation strangles business. It's not the big guy you're hurting, he's the one laughing it off.
Kultur
Alas even HG types had work. If you want societies with no work you would need to revert into apes.
In the case of dangerous types like Trotskyites it would make the planet safer.
Alas for all the slings and arrows if we didn't work life would be too easy.
beak
I never said there were not violent contemporary indigenous tribes. But, when you do some real research and take your head out of your ass, we can talk more
The whole post has to be looked at in the context of a world wide crisis of capitalism. Even to go back to the days of even before 2008, are off the table. Recovery is possible, not as we have ever knew it.
Technology could be labor saving, under socialism. It could bring the 20 hour work week.
Technology is different in different societies. Something was invented in ancient Rome, similar to a steam engine. Why use it when you have slaves?
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