Recall or Strike?
Angry protesters are back in the Madison state capital after a surprise maneuver and vote strips collective bargaining rights from public workers, despite the fact Democrats are still hiding out in Illinois. Crowds rushed in and started chanting and drumming but the slogans varied from "general strike" to " recall the Representatives". Lets consider this rather wide range of choices.
One is radical and addresses the question of power. It opens a can of worms because once workers see and feel this power it is very difficult to predict where it might lead. Some would demand transformative, structural change, wanting to get to the root of the inequity. This might include saying screw the budget, the deficit, austerity and the horse they rode in on. This is why mainstream union leaders fear it and have been happy with no-strike clauses in contracts and channeling issues of power into Spectacular "politics" such as Democrats, Obama, legislation, policy etc.
Which is what the "recall" chant is all about. More timid progressives want to work through legal process to recall elected officials. They buy into the dominant narrative that, as unfair as the economic downturn and the calls for austerity are, something first needs to be done about the budget deficit. As good workers they are willing to sacrifice more but they wish to cling to their "right" and a shred of dignity.
Michael Moore is fired up, calling for "class war" which to him means making the banksters and wealthy pay for the crisis they created. "We are not Broke" is his slogan, thinking that with enough people power the workers can reclaim a bigger share of the social product and re-create the middle class. This is as far as he can imagine going, at least at this point. I think it is totally inadequate but my job is to push, push, push.
The right-wing meanwhile, is challenging unionism with the charge it is undemocratic. Dues check off means money comes straight out of your check and often straight to the Democratic Party. A closed shop means you are forced to join the union. I agree these are undemocratic and coercive measures and that if unions ever wish to be viable again they need to demonstrate why they are valuable and trust that workers would come to them willingly. If somebody wants to "free-ride" on the members, he should be taught the error of this kind of thinking.
posted by troutsky @ 10:41 AM
19 comments
19 Comments:
The unions don't want a recall petition of the Democrat Senators hiding out in Illinois though. Some people have been trying to get a recall drive going and union and other democrat activists have been blocking access to the meetings, chanting and screaming so the recall advocates can't be heard. Pretty pathetic. All this because Walker wants them to contribute a greater share of their wages to their own health care and retirement funds. Even at that, they still won't be paying the same amount most people pay into such funds. But that's all right, its the place of those evil rich people to pay for all their retirement and health insurance, and they should be taxed to the gills to provide for it.
Never mind what the ultimate consequences are in terms of lay-offs. I blame the Republicans for not making their case adequately. If taxes are raised on the "rich", who do you think its going to hurt? Sure, the public sector jobs are saved, but suddenly you are dealt the specter of lay-offs in the private sector, maybe even more factory and business closings.
All so a bunch of pricks can keep riding the public gravy train. It's fucking sickening.
It's not recall or strike. It is both.
Yesterday fire fighters withdrew $$ from a bank, that contributed to Walker. The bank was forced to close for the day.
The union movement has a good record, of winning referendums historically. In Ohio I believe, they won against a right to work amendment.
This weekend farmers are coming to Madison.
The union movement never was attacked as hard, in modern times. Some union leaders think it is still the 90s. All institutions have to respond to such a mass uprising.
For all the money the unions gave Obama, he is AWOL.
Recall the bums, and create a labor party.
Ren, don't you know that if Obama publicly supported the unions here, it would more than likely turn even more people against them? Do you ever even try to take the time to think things through. That's the problem with ideologues. You take everything on faith just like a religion, and you never bother to think for yourself as to what the consequences might be.
It would tickle me to death if Obama came out and supported the unions more openly. I would especially like to see him go to Madison and join the protests at the statehouse. I'm against the unions, so does that tell you something?
Maybe he could wear a t-shirt saying "Don't Tase Me Bro I'm Your Prez". Maybe he could take part in a magical drum circle around the Wisconsin state house's WW II memorial they've been trashing and littering around from day one.
Maybe he could give a speech and say "these are my brothers and if you drag them out of here, then by God you will drag me out of here first."
Ren, I'm going to give you a little friendly advice, the same advice Nancy Reagan used to give. The next time somebody offers-just say no.
By the way Ren, what do you think the Democrats would do if the unions started a "Labor Party"? I asked you that once before and you never answered. Don't you realize they would squash that like a bug?
Pagan: Your total subservience is stunning. To be so enthralled with powers ability to control your life in every aspect; and then to beg for the opportunity to lick their boots cleaner. fascinating and pathetic. A patriot without an ounce of resistance left in him.
Pagan: What would the Democrats do?
Every dirty trick in the book. Read the history of the Farmer Labor Party in Minnesota. They tried splitting it from within, as well as Roosevelt proposing watered down version of their program. They were the first to introduce Social Security in the US senate. The Democrats had the Stalinists and weak labor leaders to help.
Some labor leaders were in both parties.
The Democrats were for decades the third party here. Most liberals were Republicans.
The NonPartisan League won in North Dakota, running in the Republican primary at first. They took over the state.
We know Pagan's position on this issue, we don't know Beakerkin's.
I want to know where he stands on collective bargaining for public employees? Does he support Gov. Walker?
We get everything but clarity from him.
I have to confess that I'm on the fence. As the labor movement was decimated in America, public employee unions largely sat on their hands.
Until it hits them also they will never be labor supporters.
... a beaten army learns best?
Public employee unions don't give a crap about anything but themselves and continued feeding at the public trough. Any support for them in this matter is based on nothing but cheap political gamesmanship.
Real labor unions go too far too, sometimes, but they do have a case, to an extent. They are dependent on their wages and benefits from private employers, many of which have billions of dollars in both liquid assets, and in property and in many cases considerable tax breaks at the state level.
Public employees aren't being paid by some malignant public agency that has untold billions or even trillions of dollars in offshore accounts, with a battery of lawyers and an advertising firm at their beck and call, and a security firm to protect their investment.
They are paid by the FUCKING TAXPAYERS! How dare these fuckheads demand tax rate hikes on ANYBODY just so they can keep benefits in the form of health care and retirement benefits that no one else has. No private employee in the private sector gets the amount of benefits these fuckheads get, for as little in the way of contributions as these worthless pieces of shit are required to contribute.
And with the passage of this bill, they still won't be required to contribute as much as the average private worker, though they will still be required to pay significantly more.
And in the meantime, say bye bye to the old game of their dues being taken directly out of their checks and given to the union bosses, a portion of which is kicked backed to the Democrats.
FUCK THAT, whoever ever allowed that to happen should be prosecuted to this day, if they're still around, that's nothing but fucking BRIBERY and EXTORTION and that's one of the real reasons for this public temper tantrum.
If Wisconsin people had any kind of spine they'd demand that any public school teacher who took part in this unconscionable display would be summarily fired. I wouldn't allow a kid of mine to be in the same building with somebody like that, let alone being taught by them.
Grrrrrrrrrrr
Well that's the difference Pagan, you live in Kentucky so you've got a different set of problems.
Meanwhile, the general population in Wisconsin seems to feel that they are on the side of the teachers, and let's be clear, this is about privatizing the school systems.
No, I think that a certain stratum of the economic populace is tired of having money spent on educating the darkies and the spics and the poor when it could be going to the Wall Street Casino.
This ain't over.
It's clean, safe, too cheap to meter.
The nuclear plant situation in Japan seems a little shaky. Many scientists claim that a full scale meltdown is impossible, even with an 8.9.
Let's hope this isn't another BP moment.
Kentucky's a Democrat state too Ducky, and yes, we have problems with public employees too, including the teachers unions. Same deal. Curriculum probably pretty much the same, like the overall culture of education is the same, and as is to be expected, the same shitty results.
Don't think for one second that because Kentucky has a reputation as a redneck state that its a Republican State, KY's been Democrat for decades now, since well before the Roosevelt years, at least.
And take it from me, they are influenced by the same liberal, leftist loons as you find in any other state with a Democrat politician hugging their crotch from inside their pockets.
You can't even kill a bear in Kentucky, even if it is in the process of breaking into your own house, without being prosecuted and paying a fine and/or going to jail.
Now you think about that and tell me, does that sound like something Republican politicians would do, or does it sound more like something a bunch of god damn Democrats would do.
Ren : What I heard coming from the farmers rally today was Jesse Jackson shtick, a couple of pastors and a bunch of politicians. No radical voices. It's a closed cycle and the 14 returning Dems were vague at best about how to break out of the pattern.
Ducky: Nuclear power has a genie-like quality, fine when contained.Terrifying when something goes wrong (which it always will)
If we don't have nuclear we're just going to have that much more oil and coal. And if Obama refuses that's that much bigger a margin the Tea Party candidates will win by in 2012.
But, alas, I'm afraid I'm going to have to shelve my dreams of a nuclear powered automobile, for now.
True Pagan, we may have dug so deep that nuclear power has to be part of the solution. "experts" say that ceramic covered pellet reactors are almost immune to melt down.
So do we believe them? Or are we just dealing with a bunch of flacks?
The oil industry reminds us that it is difficult to calculate the true cost of a specific energy source. All kinds of hidden liabilities but isn't this the case with a lot of capitalism?
The only thing that bothers me about nuclear is the idea of nuclear plants being built in Third World countries. I don't see how you stop it legitimately. On the other hand, France gets a greater share of its energy from nuclear than any other country. I have yet to here of any problems with them.
They should develop a system whereby anytime reactors overheat the system automatically begins to shut down, maybe even fix it where the radioactive materials drain from the main reactors into underground container vaults from which it can be extracted once the problem is solved. I don't know, I'm no engineer.
What I do know is the power supply of the US is not going to be met by solar and wind and its the height of absurdity to think otherwise.
Troutsky: The first actions in 1905 Russia, were led by clergy, presenting a petition to the czar. The revolutionary process has started.
People will think it out; "I don't like Bush and the Walker guy, but the Democrats aren't doing anything either."
There are events planned for April 04th.
Trotsky was clear, the main problem is a crisis of leadership.
I agree with Ducky, the attack on teachers is about privatizing schools and union busting. The other aspect is being able to teach Creationist theory.
I think a good demand would be to bailout the states.
In Wisconsin the biggest corporations pay zero taxes.
Walker compared what he is doing, to Reagan and PATCO. The right lacks analytical skills. Reagan attacked at the end of an era of antiwar, civil rights, and feminist movements. Walker is attacking at the start of the rebirth of the movements.
Walker will be recalled for sure, his numbers are worse than Gary Condit's.
I think a good demand would be to bailout the states.
That is not going to happen. And actually, if you really want to get right down to it, that's what the so-called "stimulus bill" was really all about anyway, for the most part.
Those jobs Obama "saved" were mostly union jobs (of course) and most of THEM were-wait for it-public employees. And a large portion of them, probably most of them, were STATE employees.
We've had enough. Say bye-bye to the Gravy Train.
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