Davey Downer
I hope I'm not just turning into a total curmudgeon, but this exuberance over Madison Wisconsin seems a bit over the top. What it reminds me of is the rush so many on the labor left felt when workers took over the Chicago Doors and Windows factory last year. Progressive pundits, eager for some sign of resurgent militant activism, gushed over the solidarity of "the workers". Now I am hearing that the Madison state capital is the "new Tahir Square" but I'm sorry, I see too little too late. I hope I'm wrong. Hearing Obama praise the public sector unions I wanted to vomit. How stupid does he think we are? He hired Arnie Duncan, Vilsek. General Electric for fuck sake. What happened to the Employee Free Choice Act, Barak?
I caught a certain amount of flack on the home-front for advocating support for the most rabid right wingers in the last election cycle but I think we are seeing the fruits of that effort. In our local paper I read: "Republicans, buoyed by anti-government fervor and the mantra of job creation, seek unfettered natural resource extraction". They have introduced a number of bills which display their attitude towards the environment such as SB 233 which would "prohibit the consideration of regional, national or global impacts such as climate change.." or SJ 10 to "urge the US Congress to prevent the EPA from regulating greenhouse gasses".
A freshman Representative named, appropriately, Priest, is leading the charge. A self-described "free market advocate" he believes in climate change but wants to see "the costs and benefits" to the proposed solutions. Because as we all know, INFORMATION is key to the operation of the "free market". Who wishes to try a cost-benefit analysis?
Democrats believe this ideology as well but their INFORMATION is different from the Republicans INFORMATION. They believe the costs will be borne by others but insist there is no dichotomy between the environment and the economy. They want a "green economy" in the state which is the largest coal producer in the U.S.and also depends on natural gas and oil. (both the extraction and use of.)
Back to the Priest of Pure Capitalism : Jason has also drafted a handful of bills "seeking to remove incentives for energy efficiency" ( distorts the free market) and the Property Fairness Act which would require the government to pay a landowner any time the state diminishes the value of property by any amount." Based on good INFORMATION, of course. He also says "clearly if you have to mandate an activity, there's some question as to whether people value it..otherwise they'd be doing it." The fundamentalist argument against stop signs.
Why am I overjoyed about all this?
1. Montana survives on subsidies and incentives but the system is unsustainable.
2. My progressive friends refuse to recognize free market fundamentalism drives local conservatives. Time to wake up.
3. My progressive friends have always insisted the government is the public's bulwark against market tyranny. NGO's have spent billions and wasted years with this approach.
3. My progressive friends insist the legislative-regulatory-system works. Yeah, right. Lobby forth, my friends.
posted by troutsky @ 10:09 PM
22 comments
22 Comments:
What is the Employee Free Choice Act? Is that the one where Unions bosses would succeed in doing away with the secret ballot in union elections, or is it the one about to be sponsored by Rand Paul where you would not have to join a union if you don't want to, or would not have to pay dues to a union that supports Democrat politicians you don't support?
Card check wouldn't be a benefit for workers who want a union, Pagan?
Maybe they like the Walmart working conditions?
Unions would be fine if they just stuck to what they were supposed to do, protect workers from unfair practices and from firing without legitimate cause, insuring reasonable wages and benefits, etc. If I were in a union I would be very pissed off if my union dues went to electing somebody like Barak Obama, or some other liberal Democrat ass-clown. But all that's neither here nor there. This is a situation where you have a state, one among many that are bankrupt, they're broke, and these assholes are insisting the gravy train keep on chugging along.
The problem with that is, they aren't being paid by a private employer, they're being paid by the taxpayer. I don't know about you, but China isn't going to loan me the money to make car payments on a Bentley or some other automobile I can't afford, and they're not going to loan it to any state either.
States aren't like the federal government. They have to balance their budgets. Public employees are cutting their own throats because they're too fucking stupid to know their union bosses are basically communists who want to break the system so they can usher in some kind of land of Oz never-never Shangri-La.
Well, the dream is over. Its time for them to get their asses back to work. Because what are they again? That's right, they are public servants, not the fucking masters and lords to the manor born. Fuck them, I have zero sympathy for them.
Here we go again with the developmentally disabled Marxists
talking about matters they are clueless about. Given the record of actual communist regimes records on labor this is pure comedy.
How about the new plantations called co-operatives with slave masters like Ren holding the whip?
Walmart is preferable to plantation
style communism.
I hope I'm not just turning into a total curmudgeon, but this exuberance over Madison Wisconsin seems a bit over the top.
You think 70,000 workers camping out at the Wisconsin state capitol is over the top?
At the same time, you don't advocate for a mass labor party, that could lead to victories.
This event can't be compared to, but its influenced by Tunisia, Egypt and now Libya.
The Tea Party could only find 2,000 people, in a crowd of 70,000.
Pagan is correct that union support for the Democrats is partly why they are now in a bind.He is also correct that people shouldn't be forced to join unions. They should wish to do so because unions provide the best vehicle for social and economic justice. But they gave that up long ago.
Of course Rand Paul or Repubs or Tea People have even fewer ideas because basically the jig is up. We are all Ireland now and no matter how "free" the libertarians now feel, they will soon see how hollow freedom is when you are in a soup line.
A labor party could not change this basic fact; we will never legislate the jobs back. Too little, too late.
Beak, welcome back any thoughts on Wisconsin and collective bargaining?
Troutsky-
This is exactly why Obama as it stands now will not be reelected. Notice how pessimistic you are. We are all pessimistic, or mostly so, but nobody has any faith in unions, or Democrats, including most Democrats, liberals, and leftists. What could possibly move Democrats in large numbers to go to the polls to vote for more of the same shit? People are wanting to try something novel and different. In 2008 they thought Obama was that guy. Little did they know he was just more of the same corrupt Democratic Party machine and political skulduggery Chicago style. Now he's gone to the extent of aiding and abetting union protesters against the states, which of course is made up of the people of the states. Never mind cigarettes, I think we're dealing with the first presidential crack smoker.
One of these days, union leaders are going to have to make a decision. Who are they for? Whose interests do they represent? Communists, the Mafia, or god damn Democrats?
Hey, I just had a thought. How about they represent the interests of their rank-and-file for a change? Now there's a novel thought. Hey, that might even be a way to get people interested in joining unions again, ya think?
Pagan, the Black Bush is hardly a leftist. He isn't even progressive.
I defy you to point to any progressive policies other than the repeal of DADT under his regime.
Just another jive triangulator like Clinton. Move right center, push the right wing over into bizarro land and split the difference.
Maybe you an explain how his economic policy amounts to anything but kissing corporate ass.
Ducky, everything is about corporatists with you. All you see is big business. You don't even see or acknowledge all the myriads of small and medium sized businesses Democrat policies have always hampered and hamstrung since way before the days of Obama, the difference with Obama is, he is even worse than LBJ on steroids and maybe even worse than Carter.
It's not just the taxes its the regulatory policies. Since when does the EPA get to institute rules and regulations the Congress has even rejected. How is that "rightest"?
What about the FDA's crazy policies? And the list goes on and on. Why do I even bother, you either refuse or are unable to acknowledge it.
I don't know what regulations you are talking about, Pagan.
Also remember that sustainability is a requirement of the economic system a desire. Trying to maximize resource extraction as a goal is insane.
Go back to any of the classic economists, especially Adam Smith and you will find support for regulation. Only Locke and his cult of property which evolved to The Full Ayn Rand rejected the idea.
Ducky-There you go again, all or nothing, feast or famine. Whatever happened to the concept of moderation? Regulatory agencies adopt a hostile tone towards business. That can't help but have a deleterious effect that ripples throughout the greater economy. They adopt a hostile posture, like American business and the American people are the enemy and they are an occupying force. It's insane. Since you are so enthralled over the upheavals and rebellions going on in the Middle East, why are you so supportive of the tyrants that run roughshod over your own fellow citizens?
Again, please give some examples?
Are you referring to the regulatory efforts that got dropped before Wall Street trashed the world economy.
Mileage and safety standards that brought us better cars?
Mine safety standards that brought us Massey Energy? Oooops...
I'm talking about the EPA trying to adopt the policies of the old Cap And Trade Bill, even though the Congress rejected it, for one thing.
So your big objection is something that isn't legislated or being enforced?
When taxes are too high, people go hungry.
When the government is too intrusive, people lose their spirit.
Act for the people’s benefit; trust them, leave them alone.
~ The Tao, 75th verse
Troutsky: A labor party would change the debate.
When the biggest mobilizations of workers in the US in decades occur, it's not the time to be doing the "too little too late" thing.
Gov. Walker has drawn a line in the sand. A big subject of conversation is general strike. That's a new idea. It is being talked about.
Yeah, a labor party would change the debate all right. I agree with Ren, there should definitely be a labor party. All the labor Democrats could vote for Ren's new labor party, the other Democrats could keep voting for the same bums they usually vote for, and the Republicans could all keep voting Republican.
I like Ren's idea.
Don't get too comfortable, Pagan. It's becoming clear that the R's have splintered and the Baggers are making things difficult.
The Bagger is going to lose his attempt to deny collective bargaining in Wisconsin and Baggers are going to cause Bohner (R - Tanning Salon) a lot of trouble.
I believe a labor party would attract more support than the Baggers and a palatable alternative.
Pagan
The developmentally disabled Capo Ren states the labor party nonsense
for every issue ranging from hemorrhoids to athletes foot. Unlike Prof Tarzan he is one long cliche and devoid of any higher thought above that of a lobotomized lab rat.
Of course Ren is unwilling to move to join Hugo. Communists, are not willing to give up their comfortable lives and live under the messes they advocate for others.
Hopefully the Obama administration will search more homes of far left thugs. No doubt the funding of some of these groups should land some familiar types in Gitmo.
Of course Troutsky's Theresienstadt tours should be taxed as income if they are government subsidized by Chavez.
Ducky-you're reading too much into things. Bottom line, anytime Republicans nominate a conservative, they win. Anytime they nominate a RINO, its an iffy proposition and depends on the circumstances. For example, the best move John McCain ever made was picking Sarah as his VP pick. I, for one, would not have voted in the 2008 election if he had picked another RINO such as himself, and that holds true for many, many others.
Had he not picked Palin in other words, he would not have done nearly as good in the election as he did, and what that means is there would have been an even bigger Senate and House majority for Obama after the 2008 election.
Sarah Palin may have single-handedly saved the Republic, in other words.
I don't know how things are going to turn out in Wisconsin, and neither do you. What I do know is, in the next election, it doesn't really matter whether the GOP nominates a conservative, or a RINO. The Republican rank-and-file are going to come out in force in 2012, and they are going to vote the straight Republican ticket.
Beak-
If I were you I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time waiting for Obama to crack down on any of his leftist buddies. The dirty little secret about his failure thus far to close down Guantanamo is he realizes just what a cushy place it is and just how good Islamist turds have it there. That place is not a prison, its a resort, and if he ever sends anybody there it would not be as a punishment, it would be a reward for a job well done.
And oh by the way, leftists know this too, that's why you rarely hear them bitch that much about it since Bush left office.
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