Desire ( for Che Bob)
An ongoing issue at recent IOPS meetings (International Org. for a Participatory Society) is the effect of Desire, from a psychoanalytical perspective, on any utopian project. We all agree that small d desire, as in want, need, avarice, greed, pleonexia ( look it up!) etc. ( Maslov's hierarchy)is a problem for any project of social engineering, be it emancipatory or exploitive. Aligning and regulating drives,incentives and values is always the necessary/impossible goal. But when we wander into the realm of Desire and try to pick up where Freud and Lacan left off, we have a much thornier thicket to wade through. Much much denser, in terms of text and discussion. I have always been hesitant when it comes to incorporating the unconscious into revolutionary theory and it has been pointed out that Participatory theory doesn't really go there either.You don't see Chomsky talking a lot about alienation or transference. Obviously, if we are looking at alienation and estrangement, valorization,reification, mystification, fetish, and ideology we are already deep into that tricky terrain. And we can't forget good old depression, anxiety and neurosis, since all of us are living " lives of quiet desperation",damaged in our own unique ways. Or like Beak, in ALL these ways. We have already dipped our toes in when trying to unpack the idea of "false consciousness" or "colonized minds" and now we run head on into the quagmire when we talk of systems of planned production, allocation and consumption. No one said this was going to be easy and we can't turn back now. So I say we "cowboy up" and grab a little Zizek, a little Laclau and maybe a little Julia Kristeva and see what we can make of pathology and symptoms and The Real. Onward though the fog!

16 Comments:
I would love to wade in but I'm uncertain what I might find and whether I would understand it. There are always "things" that I wish to bring up at Vic. Chapter meetings but don't. No time, I actually uncertain what they are and where they stem from. I'm even more uncertain as to whether they are actually of value at all. After meetings sometimes, I could talk for hours, and kind of have, with others like Jason, about things that you Trout, may find interesting as Jason has a penchant for the Conti' Phil's as well.
I understand when you talk of "things" butting up against planned prod, alloc, and consumption, and when you talk of the Beakster's deep rooted pathology but unclear about Real, real, Desire, desire etc..
Perhaps this is not the place but there is an allure with this stuff, but unclear how it would actually bring more clarity after wading through the fog. It is hard enough trying to connect Tim Morton, a light weight in the scheme of things, and rev theory. Harman even more so. When I look at the amount of material, I wonder if beginning had more to do with entertaining myself as opposed to anything else. Chomsky has a real point when he asks whether this stuff could be unravelled in plainer language thereby making it more poss for others to jump in. And by others I really mean those who perhaps may find things in this stuff that relate more to the wholeness of life and existence rather than the analytic. Being as opposed to pulling being apart.
Anyway, just some thoughts.
Troutsky
You are seriously a world class ignoranus.
Unlike you I don't have a menial job or play faux country fool for the entertainment of wealthy Capitalist suckers. I spend my day very satisfied making important decisions that impact lives.
I am a very important part of a huge team and I mentor scores of new hires. Attorneys that tip more than you clowns make in a year address me as "Sir".
You and your crew are failures. You have a cartoon like faith that
is on a par with Nazism, KKK clowns and Sadists. Chomsky merely grows wealthy catering inane crap
the Ship of Fools wants to hear.
Sorry, but ridiculing Circus clown
zealots who molest fish and drive a school bus is too amusing.
When do you imbeciles realize you are freaks, losers and psychos? Of course the notion that your idea
are rejected because they are stupid doesn't sink in to your rather thick criminal skulls.
Seriously, how about a TV show where you morons talk this crap in housing projects, Walmart Parking lots, Nascar events. We can call it Revolting America. Of course if Marxist actually ventured into a housing projects the locals might just apply Social Justice. Your absence would make the world a better place.
Anon,
I totally understand how this blend of psychoanalysis and philosophy seems hard to apply to the everyday struggle, Chomsky's project trying to change US foreign policy,or even trying to start up an anticapitalist organization. It is vague, infinitely layered and yes, dense.All of that. But, and this is one of Peter's "gut feelings", I believe there is a kernel that could help us. For instance, in approaching the ticklish subject of the unconscious. Why we act against our own interests.
I coincidentally commented yesterday on Albert's interview with David Marty pt.6 and wrote several paragraphs attempting to explain how the post-modern theory he and Chomsky ( and so many others) dismiss as "arcane" could have real value. I erased the whole thing. It is not worth going there.
Instead I criticized the way he profiled "the leftists of Occupy" as using jargon and arcane language and turning everybody off. I think this is a strawman and his use of it bad form indeed. He reinforces every stereotype in the book about elite academics, it was a rant Beak could have made.
I'm a little confused Kriteva's acceptance of drug "cures" despite being a practicing psychotherapist.
Has Zizek given up on the Frankfurt school completely?
@Beak --- Seriously, how about a TV show where you morons talk this crap in housing projects, Walmart Parking lots, Nascar events.
-------
How about the Dunko's down on Eastern Ave. Beak?
I've talked it their.
Iced coffee year 'round. I'm a true New Englander.
Duncy
Communists wet in their pants anytime they might come into contact with the unwashed masses on their turf.
Fish Molester
Perhaps the logic of the presenter
was over your limited IQ. Despite your delusions you are a moron who
is wed to a criminal philosophy
and immune to facts that conflict with those failed ideas.
You live with the delusion as the heir to the divine truth you can Lord over the unwashed masses. Sorry Cumwad, you are and always will be a failure.
Ask the Society of Friends to send you to North Korea one way.
Beak: I would be an awesome Lord.
Ducky: Beverly Best references Kristeva in a great piece called The Problem of Utopia: Capitalism, Depression and Representation. I got it online and yes, its a tad heavy in the lifting dept.
Beak,
Logic cannot be above someone's IQ. That is another category mistake. You keep making them. You will have to learn to phrase things better.
Eg, "The logic of the presenter was beyond the capacity for understanding, of the fish molester with a limited IQ."
Troutsky
This is the delusion Commies have. You are a failure and an imbecile relegated to molesting fish and playing bumpkin for wealthy patrons.
The Unwashed masses are smarter than the sons of genocide. They can determine their own fate without fools and psychos playing God.
How about it Troutsky? Lets place your feet where your ideals are.
One way to North Korea and a trip to one of the Officers at the State Department and you renounce your citizenship.
Take Che Sponge Bob, Renegade Testicle and Anonahole.
Leave Krolic as Museum Relic of a wannabe intellectual.
Anonahole
Logic, facts are above your ability to learn. As a communist, you are not able to think independently. You are a herd animal addressing a man.
Even among the herd animals you are a follower.
I respect Christians who build Churches, hospitals and Orphanages. Commies build gulags and prisons and require fences and force to keep the masses in
Troutsky belongs in an insane asylum where he can live communally and medicated. Every lousy idea including the Confederacy has its exponents.
Beaks,
Will you never learn. Category mistake after category mistake. Only another organisms ability to learn can be above mine. Like yours for example. Logic and facts are merely what they are. Although I do suspect they are things you are unfamiliar with.
Sorry, things with which you are unfamiliar. Just in case you don't like ending sentences with prepositions.
Anonahole
You are a lower life form. You are no different than the insane religious cultist except that they don't have a history of mass murder,terrorism and treason.
Like the religious cultists you are not capable of any thought beyond whatever idiotic text or inane verbiage of the "Dear Leader". You have more in common with the Moonies, Larouchites and Neonazis than Americans.
Now go play with your manifesto coloring book. Better yet have Che Sponge Bob emulate Jim Jones. Practice Class genocide on yourself first.
FYI Jim Jones was the best Communist of all time.
I found the Beverly Best article, trout.
I've looked it over and only Beak would disagree with her premise that the structural cracks are obvious and we need to dictate the alternative.
But before that can be formulated the TPP has too be stopped.
We just can't bail quickly enough.
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