Days of rage
Folks is mighty upset! Some Christian militia was all set to start The Final Battle but now they are looking for a good lawyer. Most right-wing sites are trying to ignore it although I found one who said the members were just being picked on for having "different ideas". Which is true. Sort of like Hitler was picked on for having "different ideas". Another Truth is, their manifesto is not so different from what I read on Craig Bardos site, not so different from our local Celebrating Conservatism or so different from what most Republican congressmen will say on the House floor. My project to focus on liberals and "progressives" has been derailed and the local group forming to fight right-wing extremism got a shot in the arm. Oh well.
This piece by Frank Rich http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/opinion/28rich.html?th&emc=th takes a shot at cultural analysis,viewing the health care rage as just a symbol of unresolved tension over civil rights, affirmative action, Vietnam, changing racial demographics, feminism, gays, religious scepticism, hippies, etc etc.. I think that is a needed analysis but as I have been arguing, some of this angst goes back to the Civil War and Federalism and all the way back to Jefferson, equality and liberty. We never really "move on" because these buried antagonisms are left to fester.
My friend told me they had a dress up party at the local tavern on Saturday whose theme was Pimps and Ho's.So there is also the spread of cognitive disorder running into full blown mental illness which affects over half the population now. So that's a problem. I assume they got this from the Acorn video but these are all white working class heroes, dressed in camo and ball caps, publicly educated and totally unprepared for democracy. Tribalism, localism, small town Taliban. Lock and load. Sarah Palin will be speaking at the NRA National Convention in April with Ollie North. Could be a riot.
posted by troutsky @ 8:25 AM
33 comments
33 Comments:
Rich is using an age old liberal tactic. Support for the government takeover of private industry is highly unpopular. As unsustainable as the debt and deficits are, legislation that does not have the support of the people is doomed. So the narrative that Rich and others have taken is to conflate contrived claims of racism, gay bashing, militias and religious zealotry with opposition to Obama, Pelosi, health insurance and medical destruction legislation.
In other words, if you oppose anything Obama wants you're a racist, homophobe, misogynist bigot. Notwithstanding that none of the reported incidents happened, it won't work this time. People aren't being cowed by these false claims anymore. The boy and all those that tried to mimic him, have been devoured by the wolves.
Using that twit Rich as a reference shows just exactly why your site is unpopular.
Of course when a few wackos claim inspiration from the Bible and talk of revolution they go to jail. If they had added a few lines about Marx they could have had jobs in higher ed.
Shooting cops, who do these guys think they are Chesimard, Mummia or Peltier? It seems that these sort need a clown like Che"Sponge" Bob to lead them.
Has anyone seen Ren? Maybe he was practicing entryism with the militia crew. No doubt he will be pretending he is the medicant moron
Trotsky in prison next to a few Napoleons and Elvis types in the prison psych ward.
Had these loonies walked around singing Mazzola Corn Goodness Kultur would have joined them. Let
us not forget that the Unibomber was just another far left University clown
CB: Open your eyes. The hcr was written by the insurance industry.
Do you want an example of government involvement in commerce? The greatest expropriation in American history; The Emancipation Proclamation.
Troutsky: The GOP congressman, who claimed to have been shot at, was discredited by the police report. The bullet was just fired in the air. This took place in another district, not related to the congressman. It looks like all the violence is rightist.
After lowering interest rates to zero, Reaganism died. It had no ideas after that. With no program, no solutions, all they have is terrorism.
I wonder if the Teabaggers, will figure out what the GOP really thinks of them?
You have a healthy atitude towards guns, as a lefty outdoorsman.
Ducky: Farmer John's blog is dead. His politics is as well.
Has anyone seem Che "Sponge" Bob. It is a good thing he is too lazy to get involved with people who plan an actual revolution.
Ren,
Clever, that is if you believe that slaves weren't subject to natural rights. Just because pharmaceutical and insurance companies stepped in to protect themselves temporarily doesn't mean that they won't be destroyed, particularly health insurance. The industry is being transitioned from underwriting of risk to processing government claims.
C'mon about the "violence." Remember the transsexual in Denver that smashed Dem headquarters windows. The press went on for days talking about racist violence against Obama. It was a Democrat operative. Gay bashing, "N" word, spitting? There was video over all of that stuff and not a thing! Duke Lacrosse, Twanna Brawley and literally hundreds of such claims the media rushes out there with and for which it turns out to be a lie or liberals trying to implicate conservatives. It has no resonance anymore, not with so much at stake. Not now!
Even black liberals I know roll their eyes with these claims.
I wonder who you think the GOP is by and large? Conservatives? You would be very wrong. Establishment conservatives are those like John McCain, Lindsay Graham, Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, et al. The GOP despises true conservatives like Jim DeMint and me.
The tea party folks are probably not all classical liberals like me but they will pull the GOP in my direction.
"I assume they got this from the Acorn video but these are all white working class heroes, dressed in camo and ball caps, publicly educated and totally unprepared for democracy."
Actually, I think they got the idea from Michael Steele.
The health insurance industry and their expensive vigorish from every health care dollar destroyed?
Only in my dreams. Certainly not by this modest "reform" bill.
CB's next trick will be explaining the service the health insurers provide and why they should have exemption from anti-monopoly laws. Why do they fear competition and how can they provide savings without competition?
CB, other than Bernie Saunders can you name any potential "leftists" in government currently?
Ben Nelson? Lieberman? Max Baucus?
Clever, that is if you believe that slaves weren't subject to natural rights.
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The Founders weren't.
And this idea of "natural rights" is thrown around entirely too frivolously. It's usually some Herbert Spencer type who hasn't spent much time evaluating the group origins of mankind.
I'm willing to argue the relative merits of the free market CB but you need to be more reflective about terms such as "contrived claims" "medical destruction" and "the people". If you are not willing to start at a reasonable, logical place then you join Beakerkin in over-the-top land.
trout,
I agree that it's important to define terms. In order to facilitate a coherent discussion I think it's also important that you not introduce facts not in evidence.
When I say contrived, I mean maliciously promoting a lie as truth. I watched youtube videos when the alleged slurs & spitting occurred and I didn't see it. If it had, given the bias of a media recklessly promoting this narrative, we would be inundated with those images and sound. This tactic has been used, as I said up thread, to the point where people have become rightly skeptical and are now actively pushing back against its use as a way to change the trajectory of a discussion not going your way.
A term like medical destruction is lazy but is short hand for the removal of the supply of medical care from the market. This requires further explanation and it is based on the legislation.
If Medicare and Medicaid are the principal methods for reimbursing doctors for their services for patients who have those coverages and they don't even cover the costs of care, it follows that fewer doctors will accept those forms of "payment." In fact, since about 2007 (1 year after Democrats got the purse strings in Congress) physician reimbursement has been both delayed and reduced. It is also a fact that fewer physicians are accepting government insurance as a form of payment. It is also a fact that physicians are retiring and have indicated that they will retire with Obamacare in place. Why? This plan will increase the prevalence of government reimbursement.
Four or five posts ago, I asked you at the end of a thread- I'm sure you moved on, what your solutions are. If you were king, how would you approach organization of our society? In a comparative philosophy discussion I heard recently, I learned that Marx was sympathetic to feudal societies, to my surprise. So, it's not without merit to crown you and ask what's your pleasure?
A Tea Party leader openly came out for abolishing Social Security on the Larry King show.
CB: I'd like to hear you explain why Obama, never once met with people for universal healthcare? The only reason the Democrats took initiative on HCR, is their insurance company masters demanded it.
I can recognize differences in conservatives. To say the Republican Party is hostile to conservatives is a stretch.
The idea of race only based slavery, is related to capitalism. In the US, after the Bacon Rebellion, race based slavery was started.
As a whole, the right is more prone to violence. I would like to see more on the left, have a view on guns as Troutsky has.
CB -
My former partner said that when you become rich you become a conservative; but when you are filthy rich, you have enough to be liberal again, and start to provide for those who have not been as fortunate as you in the system... After all, the system was not really designed with the 'populace' in mind... it was designed by those who already HAD IT, and wanted to protect what they had.
I wonder when you think you will have enough to see its problems.
Lets see a Tea Party Leader made an in inane comment. Do we need to run down the list of Hugo Chavez quotes.
A supporter for a criminal terrorist state should really not get into a contest with who makes the most dumb remarks.
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Beak, you are a master of the straw man argument nonpareil.
You are so prolific that it's virtually pointless to attempt communication.
Let's see, do you think we should look at Iran's system of clinics as a model to providing basic services, especially in poorer areas?
Now in 1, 2 ...
CB, I agree the "spit" was Spectacularized but the bigger point is the rage. The anti-war left was pretty virulent without a doubt,but that was over innocent corpses.
This rage has many threads but the one that you and other classic conservatives appear most concerned over is the perceived threat to the market system.I wish we could have that national conversation but no one has the courage. When Obama mentioned "spreading the wealth" during the campaign all he got was rage and superficial slogans.Pitbull there is a perfect example.
As for Troutsky's Answers to the Big Problems, I want egalitarian, pluralist democracy that preserves freedom. That requires moving past markets to a democratically administered economy, democratically organized workplaces and primarily, a reinvigorated politics.It would be a sphere where you could make your case for the profit system and our arguments could be judged on merit.
WASHINGTON (April 2) -- A federal intelligence note is warning police that an anti-government group's call to remove dozens of sitting governors may encourage others to act out violently.
A group that calls itself the Guardians of the Free Republics wants to "restore America" by peacefully dismantling parts of the government, according to its Web site.
As of Wednesday, more than 30 governors had received letters demanding they leave office within three days or they will be removed, according to an internal intelligence note by the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security, which was obtained by The Associated Press.
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Guardians of the Free Republic? They anything like the Knights of the White Camellia?
Beakerkin: There is no such thing as a terrorist state. Your hero shot down a passenger plane.
Opposing social security has been the program of the American right. The Tea Party person was honest about the right's goals.
Speaking of fools. It turns out the so called journalist, from the unedited tapes, never claimed to be a pimp at ACORN offices. He wasn't dressed as Superfly except in edits.
The propagandist for a terrorist state now goes into official liar mode. The judges in Spain have nothing better to do than to lie about Hugo's role with FARC and ETA.The ties to Narco terrorist FARC are fact and Hezbollah operates within Venezuela.
The allegations against Posada Corales are amusing and unproven.
Any actions taken by Cubans against their brutal state are warranted.
Cuban Anticommunists are to civilized to push senior citizens
off cruise ships or to shoot school kids in the back.
Hijacking planes was almost entirely a Communist thing with the exception of DB Cooper and a Jewish guy who wanted to escape typical communist persecution until
9-11.
As far as terrorism your mendicant clown messiah war criminal was quite familiar with its practice.
Do not bore us with the inane writings of the self serving mendicant who was all over the place according to whatever suited his needs at the moment.
You should ditch Trotsky for a better example of communism Jim Jones. Class genocide is best practiced on yourself and your cohorts.
Ducky
A person that supports a rouge Narco Terrorist State should not lecture us about anyone. I will see if I can find the ring tone where some Royalty tells Chavez to shut up
Beakerkin: The prisoners of FARC, who were recently released, went out of there way, to thank President Chavez for his efforts on their behalf.
Unlike your made up accusations, more trade unionists are killed in Colombia, than any other country. FARC should give their weapons to the trade union movement.
When your grandfather fought in the fascist army, did he goose step? His leader Pilsudski went on to become a Stalin supporter.
You finally admitted to supporting shooting down passenger planes, as long as its done by Cuban gusanos. Typical rightist mindlessness.
Robert Service is a liar. I can squash any premise of his book. I want to do it with an audience. When antisemitism shows its face, you hide. You agree Trotsky should be attacked for not having a Jewish nose? That's the level of the book you endorse.
Do you agree with Service, that Russia didn't have a revolution? If he is wrong on that basic question, that makes everything wrong. Service's main problem, beside being a rightist antisemitic hack, is unable to understand what happened.
I can't think about your grandfather without spitting.
More Lies from an apologist for a Narco terrorist buffoon.
1) My Grand father fought for Poland.He was against Communism in all forms. He did not like Poland and left at the first opportunity.
History has proven him correct.
Your views on fascism like yourself
are steeped in ignorance and lies.
True fascism is superior to Communism. Il Duce unlike the Ice Pick catcher could govern. Any comparison of Il Duce to Trotsky
is an insult to Il Duce.
In Trotskyite dementia anyone who opposes communism is a fascist.
As for Posada Corales I did not admit to anything. All actions taken against the tyrannical government are warranted. After all Cubans are notorious for inhuman conditions executions and denying political prisoners water.
Unlike the USA where your fellow Commie Billie "Little Lord Fauntleroy" Boy Ayers was allowed to fully organize the people of Cuba are not permitted.
You are now going into comedy mode.
My office has interviewed thousands of Colombians and not
one of them has ever said a bad word about the government. They have plenty to say about FARC, Chavez and American Commies.
Are you going into the third force bit again. Lets see we will change the name of FARC and still do our drug dealing and kidnapping.
What title are you personally aiming for Pimp of the People, Kapo of the People or Pusher of the People?
Robert Service
In typical Commie fashion Ren attacks a book he has never bothered to read. Of course he might need his buddy Hugo to fork
over the funds to read the book in question.
The record of the Chavez on Jews is quite clear. We have multiple accounts of Jews fleeing kidnappings by pro Chavez thugs.
The accounts are backed by ample
evidence.
Trotsky was considered a traitor by Jews who practiced the faith.
Those that had dementia gravitated
towards the Bund, not Bolshevism.Trotsky was an opportunist speaking out of all sides of his mouth at various times. He was not a Jew and his statements at various times indicate the truth about Communists
and Jews.
Communism is a religion and it erases all nationalities. When it is expedient they will take any position to gain power. Once in power they will commit any crime to
maintain and expand power.
As said by Sean Connery in a film
"Try reading books instead of burning them". Lets not pretend commies do not have a lengthy record of censorship as well as actual book burnings.
The only good thing about commies is that they tend to kill each off.
Any comparison between Commies and
the mafia is an insult to the mafia. The mafia unlike Communism
is well run and its members are not lazy. The violence is limited
and tactical.
Maybe your friend LWB will give you a job as a Kappo in his concentration camp.
One more thing
The actual record of the support of Chavez for FARC and ETA is a fact. You want to give credit to a person aiding and abetting criminals for releasing a hostage when he is funding the same terrorists.
Troutsky,
Forgive my long absence. I think CB is correct that the "opposition stems from racism" attack is wearing thin. People are mad because the economy is hemorrhaging jobs and Obama can't stop it. If McCain or Hillary were running the show, you'd have different people who were angry, but the anger would still be there.
Also, for all their confusion, the Tea Partiers have a few points. We can't keep spending money without increasing our savings. It's too bad they didn't notice that deficits are a problem until their boy left office, but it's still a valid point.
I agree with the economic argument Wiser, I was just adding a little background and nuance.
I also agree about savings but feel it would be less of an issue if wealth and power were justly distributed and institutions more democratic.
I also agree about savings but feel it would be less of an issue if wealth and power were justly distributed and institutions more democratic.
It might be worth considering that the inflationary policies of the Federal Reserve are destroying the middle class. Notice that both Bush and Obama were quick to bailout the bankers, but the middle class still sits with underwater mortgages.
A Wiser Man
The truth is that falling real estate
prices long term may help younger families. The insane prices paid by some are a reminder that all commodities rise and fall.
The government would be wiser to let those people declare bankruptcy or restructure their loans.
It is not the governments job to redistribute wealth. It is its job to regulate and provide emergency actions and limited social safety
nets.
The talk of race started long before the alleged episodes and were put forth by the most corrupt man in congress Charlie "the Red" Rangel Daniel Ortega and Castros pal and Jimmy Peanut.
There is far more bigotry in communist sponsored Nuremberg Rallies and in this blog than at Tea Party events. This blog and Rens allow a certain blogger whose
Nazi content is regularly cited by Stormfront to participate without critical comment. Maybe some of you think Holocaust jokes and bug eyed claims that a Jewish conspiracy was responsible for 9-11 is acceptable fare.
FYI Unlike the Jersey Girls I was there on that day and in 1993. The people I know who share my experiences are not angry at Bush. They are angry at Truthers who overwhelmingly are Commies or Nazis for making a mockery of the dead. Then again most of us work and do not run around from camera like communist media clown and bigot Cindy Sheehan.
One can readily see anti Jewish signs at any peace protest. An old lady who survived the Holocaust was harassed buying groceries by Commie punks calling her "Zionist Bitch" at the RNC convention protests. When her neighbors including the working class doorman, porter, a 60's hippie and myself ran to her aid the police had to extract the commies for their own protection. Oddly the "pigs" had to save the lives of the commies. The woman had flashbacks to Nazi Germany thanks to the wonderful commie protesters. She was a prisoner in her own apartment and was quite vocal in what this reminded her of. Not one protester intervened when a senior citizen was bullied.
I personally escorted this woman out to buy groceries. I do not have to ask what a classy person like CB would do. Protecting senior citizens and children from an angry bigoted mob is what any brave man would do. Rosey Grier saved Sirhan Sirhan's life when an angry mob with much justification wanted to kill him.
There is a world of difference between Rosey Grier who is a Giant and helps the community and folks like Ren who leach off their problems as a route to power.
You mean it wasn't a Jewish deal??
The University Post Marxist bigot does not fail to disappoint. Your kind has a history of populist antisemitism and Hitler has many anti capitalist quotes as well.
Actually Beak - I am still one of the tribe; bar Mitzvah'd; belonged to the temple, the whole bit. Bit when I grew up I put away the childish toys of religion. But you? You are a disgrace to humanity; to your Jewish heritage, a disgrace to mom and dad, you are simply a disgrace. period!!
Kuktur
Communists are no longer Jews. The words and life of Ren's messiah speak loudly and clearly on the subject. Jews who practice the faith recognize me as someone who should be more observant. They do not recognize commmies as being Jewish.
As far as the toys of religion comment you reveal the post Marxist antisemitism that is obvious in any reading of your comments.
As for your comments about my life.
It is a fact that I have helped many more people in my career than you have as a second rate academic
hack. This is not bragging it is a statement of fact.
You may now continue to delude yourself that your life was relevant.
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