Faith or Government
I saw where an old acquaintance was organizing a homeless shelter so went to the first meeting an hour ago. The place was packed with Christians, including some very right-wing types I have fought over gay rights legislation and Creationism so I was unsurprised to hear them object to the group getting official non-profit status because " You can't mix government and God." These same people don't want to collaborate with any government agencies such as welfare or human resources or even apply for any grants because they know it would limit their ability to proselytize. See, their "help" comes with a price. They are convinced that charitable work and saving souls go hand in hand because poor people are "fallen" or "failed", morally at fault for the condition they find themselves in and these Good People will be their salvation.
The IWW has a great old song about this issue called Long Haired Preacher, I think it was written by Joe Hill. The problem is this charity does nothing to address the structural causes of poverty nor does it organize people to become more empowered. I am sure all those well meaning people sincerely want to help but they don't get the dialectic.
Meanwhile, the growing Missoula radical community came together last night to discuss the possibility of creating a social centre and though we can't produce the kinds of numbers the Christians can, we have some dedicated groups and individuals. Will we proselytize the Communist Religion when we get unsuspecting victims in the door? Would we accept a government grant? The idea is to have a place where dancers, artists, musicians could gather as well as having an education/ discussion/ organizing space. Do you know of any places such as this in your town? Elsewhere? How I could contact them?
Forget Yemen. We are going to learn about an island named Haiti and the lessons from a black President may be especially enlightening. The PBS news tonight did not mention aid from Cuba or Venezuela because they are not allowed to. As Che Bob just pointed out, they will, however, have to explain why the transnational owned sweat shops are still standing.
posted by troutsky @ 3:05 PM
17 comments
17 Comments:
Venezuela on Tuesday sent its first aid airplane. The deployment consisted doctors, engineers, search and rescue specialists, and civil protection officers, as well as urgently needed food, water, medical supplies, and rescue equipment. Cuba as usual sent medical help.
Since 2004, when Aristide was kidnapped there has been troops and police from Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Canada, the USA, Spain, France, Italy and Jordan.
Faith OR government?
After all your experience studying how to get government to be more like you want it you still imagine there's a separation of church and state!!! Any time someone counts on the government to assume their personal responsibilities it mistakes it for the function religion claims as their raison d'etre. They are no more separate than the two party system.
Yes trotsky - our national consciousness is about as focused as WHAT WE ARE TOLD BY THE STATE CONTROLLED MEDIA!!!
Obama is continuing Bush's funding of religious groups involved with charities.
More important Obama reacted to Haiti, like Bush did to Katrina. Instead of needed supplies, they send the military. In haiti there seems to be cooperation between people. Still send the Marines.
Two sides of the same coin; faith is the basis of the State
Actually the "faith or government" was a quote from one of the Christians, which I should have made more clear. After all the concessions, these folks still have a rabid distrust of government and see no role for it in helping.Even the Muslims I worked with had more confidence that a just system of governance could exist outside of the Mosque.
I might say that faith is the basis for the governments promotion of capitalism but any allegiance the state still commands is based on fear of the alternative.
Imagine what having an effective UN would be like in these sorts of crises.
Kultur
Are you insane enough to believe that in an age of unprecedented media choice that there is any domination other than ratings. If the media were entirely about ratings how do you explain only one Fox news.
Of course the reality impaired Kultur neglects despots who may be
paying American bloggers who steal
media outlets under the term nationalization.
All bluster no insight
Trotsky points out that communism is a religion and its parasite death cultists proselytize on the government dime. Communists who do deviate from their job should be terminated immediately.
Aid from Commies was mentioned. Watch how many doctors defect to the USA or European countries at the first opportunity. Maybe the
commies should find produce and meat for their citizens.
Haitians may have it bad, but they do not travel on boats to nearby Cuba.
"Haitians may have it bad, but they do not travel on boats to nearby Cuba."
Oops! Time for some fact checks Beak. Haitians do go to Cuba. They try to get there when they can, but are often rounded up by the U.S. and returned since Guantanamo is the closest point of arrival from Haiti.
Many Haitians go there for education, and opportunities nonexistent in their sweatshop island.
...Best estimates are that there have been 300,000 Haitian arrivals to Cuba in the past two decades. In fact, the second language of Cuba is Haitian Creole. There are even Creole radio stations in Cuba.
Sorry Beak, things can be much worse than Cuba...check out U.S. health care delivery. :)
State controlled media or market controlled?
The markets worse. Then you get twenty rock channels all competing for the Beak demographic and the only jazz/classical/acoustic/world music is on NPR.
Boston had the best radio dial in the world not much more than a couple decades ago (I am NOT exaggerating) and THE FREE MARKET ruined it.
Just thought I'd throw that out, Beak.
"Pretty soon radio will just be people yelling at each other and computers playing music"
--- Robert Altman "A Prairie Home Companion"
Beak, are you willing to pick up Che Bob's challenge that in fact Cuba is hardly the nadir of the Caribbean?
Odd that it was able to develop a pharmaceutical industry and the rest of the region has had difficulty developing any skilled industries.
Education, health care ... Cuba has achieved in areas that the rest of the region would like to follow.
Over to the Beak in 1, 2 ...
Troutsky, a lot of religious charity in Boston is associated with Catholic charities.
Those organizations which take it are happy to take it and minister but there is no religious proselytizing. Not so much as a crucifix on the wall in some cases.
It works, unlike Pat Robertson we realize the goal is services to the poor.
Once again you guys are falling into the Beaker's trap. Ignore the troll!
Haitians go to medical school in Cuba.
Geologists have been for years, warning that Haiti has potential for such an earthquake.
Haiti is up against the wall. It is offered by the IMF loans, not grants.
Ducky
Haitians may have it bad, but they are not stupid. Haitians interned at Gitmo is a subject I am well versed on.
Haitians going to school in Cuba would also not count for much. Those numbers are fractional compared with those in the USA.
Far more Haitians work in the Dominican Republic and the USA.
As stated previously Haitians may have it bad but they are not stupid.
How about Cuba and Venezuela providing their citizens with produce and fresh meat.
fact check: Cuba trains more Haitian MDs, than any country.
Why doesn't Venezuela have grocery shelves stacked? It's a capitalist country. Underneath all the rhetoric, the commanding heights of the economy are in private hands.
Cuba is a poor isolated country. Can't really be called socialist. Beak is making a good argument, for ending the embargo. China's growth shows what happens, when a nationalized economy has access to the world market.
there is a volunteer radical / arts space in my neighborhood here in kansas city. it's pretty great! it's called the crossroads infoshop and creative minds arts center.
it's a radical bookstore / lending library, source of free 'zines and radical pamphlets, etc. they also sometimes have music performances and lectures and discussion groups as well. it's all very casual and small-scale - which is great. they also volunteer at the annual troost festival, a street festival on troost ave. each summer. next time you're down here, try to check it out!
http://www.crossroadskc.org/
cheers,
~ chris (a friend of laura's)
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