Consensus At Last
It took a black president to finally unite the American people around something: They ALL disapprove of the Libyan No Fly Zone on steroids. I have spent the last three days scanning sites from extreme right to extreme left and everything in between and virtually NO ONE supports the action without reservations. Which I guess leaves it to me. Screw it. I support it.
The Left is by far more vocal in it's opposition with the Dennis Kucinich "Another Iraq" faction calling for impeachment. They worry about money, and precedent and over-reach and violence and all. The Left-left worries about imperialism and blood for oil and quagmires etc..
The Right is interestingly quiet on the subject but where I can find brave voices they worry about the Islamists or other extreme elements we might be supporting and agree on the unconstitutional nature of war declaring these days. Those shrill voices calling for regime change in Iraq are eerily silent because Qaddafi and Saleh ,brutal as they are, were partners in the War On Terror.
Me? I just like uprisings, revolts, wrenches in the gears of Imperial Planning. And this wave sweeping the Arab states is totally out of control, totally un-forseen by the elite foreign policy wonks in their Think Tanks and has crushed their whole facade of analysis and expert hegemonic intelligence. RAND, Stratfor, Council on Foreign Relations, all sitting there with their thumbs up their butts because the order is breaking down. I am not so naive to think they are all democrats revolting for liberal freedoms and franchise but I really don't care. I know to some degree at least it is have-nots against haves. It is excluded against included. Marginalized against privileged. Voiceless against Corrupt bullshitters.
I also have no illusions about the humanitarian nature of this intervention. But this is what history does, decades of cynical strategy for "stability", oil and dominance "coming home to roost" , as Rev. Wright put it. The afflicted powers are scrambling to get ahead of events and I love to watch them scramble.
posted by troutsky @ 8:16 AM
14 comments
14 Comments:
What makes you think this is about the haves versus the have-nots. Like most revolutions and power struggles, the have-nots will end up being what they always were-pawns. Also like most such struggles, its a battle between the haves and the other haves over who calls the shots. All the little peons are useful solely as cannon fodder. Once its over with they'll all go back to doing what they always do-cleaning toilets, sweeping streets, and hawking fruit at the town market.
Do you really think once this is all over anybody is going to be any better off than they ever were before? Naw, just some people are going to have more power, here in this case probably the imams. But even if it does turn into some kind of secular democratic society, it will probably amount to the same deal. The little people will scurry back to their holes and that will be that. Nothing will really change beyond the surface appearances, if that much.
Hopefully, at least this will give the Israelis the excuse to run the Arabs out of Gaza, the West Bank, and the Golan. If the entire Middle East goes up in flames, no one will give much of a shit, and couldn't do anything about it if they did.
I know I'll damn sure be cheering them on.
Why not a no-fly over Gaza?
Because that would spoil all the fun that's coming down the pike, Ducky.
Sarkozy and Cameron want diversion, from their dismal domestic record. Sarkozy was burned by Tunisia.
The oil was available to the west, under Gaddafy.
Going after Gaddafy military style, is a formula for the opposition losing. Appealing to French and US imperialism, turned off workers and youth.
Only the working class and youth mobilized as a class for itself, can win.
Yeah Ren, I think I see the wisdom of your position. Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, etc., have got such an advanced capitalist class and so much wealth through their manufacturing infrastructure, and such a highly advanced middle class, why the whole region is ripe to be transformed into a socialist democracy.
Because, like you always said, that's what it takes. It takes countries that are wealthy and advanced to make a good go at socialism. It helps when the vast majority of their people are well trained and educated too. You know, like they are in Yemen.
All the fun, Pagan? Just what do you have in mind?
Pagan: You make a perfect serf. Nothing can ever change, the way it will always be,we must always lick their boots...
The point here is that events are chaotic, therefore the situation is very good.
Speaking of bootlicking, US ( other than Sarah Palin and Todd) and Europe know that it's policy towards Israel has been a total failure and is partially responsible for the chaos they now face. Expect big change.
Ren : The working class and youth were looking at extermination. Now they can organize for a future day beyond tribalism. Qaddafi
s working class supporters rallied in Tahir Square
You're right, the US policy towards Israel has been a massive failure. I think nobody realizes that better than Sarah Palin. And if she's elected, there will be a massive change for the better. Well, if you're an Israeli, that is. If you're a Palestinian, ehhh, not so much.
To quote an old hymn from my days as a somewhat naive Christian-
"There will be peace in the valley". Of course there will be a year or two of hell first, but hey, that's wut we gots now ain't it?
And believe it or not, I'm not really happy that it has to be that way, but evidently it does. Enough is enough.
"Now they can organize for a future day beyond tribalism."
Now if I thought that was the case, I wouldn't be so bad against this. Unfortunately, Arab society is tribal, which is one reason they can't get rid of the Imams. They and Islam constitute the one cohesive factor of Arab society, of most Muslim societies.
Maybe that's what it will take. A cadre of up-and-coming new socialists that won't mind one whit shipping the Imams and their most loyal, hardcore supporters off to forced re-education and labor camps, where most of them will probably die after a lifetime of well-deserved hardship and privation which they themselves have no problem foisting upon the ignorant and the superstitious as long as it nets them a fertile field to farm, of suicide bombers and other kinds of fanatics.
Unfortunately, truly freedom loving, ethical minded people with values and morals have a hard time going that route. I see it as a probably necessary evil. I'm sure the next Arabian Stalin won't have any problem whatsoever with it, because he will come to understand, and quite rightly, that that will be the only way to settle the matter.
Then, after that is done and settled, and the people see that their brand of "government" doesn't work, probably not even as well as the Islamic brand, they'll give them the heave-ho as well, when the next Ronald Reagan takes the reins of office-quite possibly wearing pumps and looking suspiciously like a fairly hot schoolmarm, depending on how old she is by that time.
Pagan: Not to worry. The US doesn't care if Gaddafy stays, or the opposition wins. The military strategy didn't make sense. Several governments are denying they are for regime change. The oil is flowing to Europe with Gaddafy What gives?
Sarkozy and Cameron need a diversion from local issues. I think the imperialist presence is only to be sure, the fighting doesn't stop oil production.
That's classic Pagan: Mama Griz can take Bibi and Lieberman moose hunting before they unleash the Final Solution!
She truly is the female Reagan and I think with one little "wardrobe malfunction" ala Janet Jackson she could be our next Commander in Chief.
Yeah Trotsky if she became Prez Jews might actually be allowed to pray at the Temple Mount once more. That would be just awful wouldn't it? There have been all kinds of final solutions in history. Muslims have this lame ass saying, if you kill one person you destroy the universe. Well, five universes were destroyed here a couple of weeks ago, all five of them were named Fogel. One of them was an infant. Her throat was slashed. Yeah, as far as I'm concerned some solutions are a bit more final than others. The Jews have been about seventy years too long dishing out their version.
When have Jews been stopped from praying at the temple wall, Pagan?
You have some ideas that seem to originate with Glenn Beck.
If Muslims had their way about it, Jews wouldn't be allowed in Jerusalem at all. Neither would Christians. Of course, that doesn't stop them from making money from Christian tourists in Bethlehem. The goal of any good Muslim (ie, a Muslim that literally believes in the teachings of the Quran) is world domination and conversion to Islam.
For example, the Quran says "there is no coercion of religion". That just means that it is mankinds destiny to one day convert to Islam while all other religions cease to exist. To force one person or family to convert simply means all that person or families future descendants will be born into the faith and naturally acquiesce to it. Thus, no coercion.
And that "kill one person and you kill the world" business? That only applies to Muslims. Killing one Christian, Hindu, Jew, Pagan, etc., means you kill a Christian, Hindu, Jew, or Pagan etc world is actually an inducement. It's doubletalk, something they are exceptionally good at.
You don't want to see all this because you have this leftist proclivity to accept everything. That's just the problem with you lefties, you're so fucking open minded your brains have fallen out. Being open minded in reality doesn't just entail being tolerant and accepting of differences, by definition it also means a willingness to see the truth, and call a spade a spade.
How many terrorist attacks, beheadings, car-bombs, suicide bombers, hi-jackings, unreasonable executions of female "adulterers" and gays, assault on school age girls, honor killings of the most horrific nature, etc., do you have to see or hear about before you finally start to wise up?
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